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The Future Potential of Swiftpoint's Gaming Mice


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*Please keep in mind that these are my opinions, and I only wish for future success of this company's innovation*


        I am a picky person when it comes to gaming mice. I have been using an MMO 7 MadCatz for around 6-7 years now, but was unsatisfied with their future products' button layouts compared to mine. Logitech & Razer would seem to come out with the same tired models and designs every year with no innovation, and I never thought of them as good or innovative mice worthy of daily use. Then I see the Swiftpoint Z. I am awestruck. The tilt and pressure sensors within the mouse to allow such gesture based macros to be implemented is an insane and revolutionary change in how mice can be used in both gaming and workplace environments. However, as I have tinkered with games in my library, I am coming to realize a few things that can greatly improve upon future iterations of this line of mice:

1. XInput Support

        This was brought up in another thread, and Bryce mentioned that if more people asked for it, it would be pushed up the priority list. I highly recommend this update since the mouse was made a year before DirectInput was shelved by Microsoft, and nowadays almost all games support only XInput, which limits the ability to use a more analog feel with certain games. I know there is currently the game-by-game program mapper x360ce, however native XInput mouse support will always be more fluid than third party software. 


2. A True Analog Stick

        This is more for a future design idea that should be at the very least explored, and the main reason why is that it would entirely free up the keyboard from movement in it's entirety. Imagine playing space sims with one hand and using the keyboard for all secondary functions, or an fps with true analog movement on PC. If the Analog stick was to also be able to be clickable (Deep Click wouldn't be needed here I don't think), and that to be programmable as well, this would even further improve the overall function. I don't use this as much for a work environment, but I imagine analog movement could work in other areas outside gaming. Another reason why this should be explored is that nobody else is doing it, save for Azeron, however their build is mostly 3D printed and more than what I paid for this mouse. The last true analog stick peripheral was the Logitech G13, which is discontinued. Razer has cornered the peripheral market and every single one of their keypads have either a 4 or 8-hat "thumbstick" that just remaps the WASD to a single thumb. This may reduce reaction times, but if you add the more human analog movement, which has always been something the consoles have over PC gaming since Mario 64, this opens up an entirely new way to play in gaming

 

Edited by InfinityBeing
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I don't think, using a analog stick on your mouse while plaing shooters would be a good idea, since it would be kind of hard to use it precisely when flicking around the mouse like hell.
Also there is the Lexip mouse which has an analog thumb button.
On the keypad side, you could get a tartarus pro and use the analog inputs, to put a controller stick on "WASD", which works surprisinglx and extremely well(I'm doing that in the games, that can handle simultaneous controller and mouse input)

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All razer options are not analog no matter their marketing. Something like an Azeron would work well in tandem, probably as a left-handed setup. Another thing I personally don't like about this mouse is the pinky wing. The way I hold my mice is usually clawing with my pinky, and with that wing it's very anti-ergonomic for me.

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If you are looking at it that way, nothing plugged in via USB is analog, since USB is a digital interface. That being said, you may believe Razer's marketing or not, that's on you, I belive what I am using and that is a Tartarus Pro which works extremely well for emulating the left controller stick e.g.
You don't need to believe me, but there is no need, to damn things without testing.
Also on the keypad side there is Coolermasters ControlPad with Aimpad Technology, which is "analog" as well in the matter, that it can detect how far the key is pressed, and you will not believe it, but that works.

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24 minutes ago, Zeanon said:

If you are looking at it that way, nothing plugged in via USB is analog, since USB is a digital interface. That being said, you may believe Razer's marketing or not, that's on you, I believe what I am using and that is a Tartarus Pro which works extremely well for emulating the left controller stick e.g.
You don't need to believe me, but there is no need, to damn things without testing.
Also on the keypad side there is Coolermasters ControlPad with Aimpad Technology, which is "analog" as well in the matter, that it can detect how far the key is pressed, and you will not believe it, but that works.

You seriously think that nothing connected through USB is analog? What about wired controllers? an 8-way binary movement apparatus is inherently inferior to an actual analog stick a la xbox or ps3. Razer has only ever done the hats and not an actual stick, unlike the G13 logitech made a while ago. I am baffled by your "nothing is analog through USB" claim.

 

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The interface itself is digital, which means, you can pass information in a very precise manner, lets say 16bit resolution, which feels like analog, due to the amount of states it has, but is not truely analog, since it is still something like let's say 256^256 states. Compare it with PWM and voltage controlled fans, the PWM ones are not analog, while voltage controlles ones are.
And I never said, the Thumstick(DPad) of the Tartarus is analog, but the keys themselves on the upper side have 256 recoginzeable states over a travel of 2.2mm, which I would say that I am not able to distinctively press one exact state, so the work really well, to simulate let's say a thumbstick.
What do you think, why Joystick manufacturers like VKB-Sim or Virpil advertise their sticks with 16bit resolution or more, would they do that, if they could use real analog, which has an unlimited amount of stages?

Edited by Zeanon
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  • 2 weeks later...

Unfortunately, I have had a paralyzed left arm for 20 years. Therefore, although I would very much like to, I can hardly play with it.
I've tried a lot of mouses with as many mouse buttons as possible in order to still be able to play with one hand. The only thing I miss to play is a small joystick on my thumb to move around in the game.

At the moment I am using the ROCCAT TYON. - If my mouse still had a joystick, I could finally play again. I think that there are very many in a similar situation.
Of all the mouses on the market, it would be incredible if there was one that would allow one-handed gaming.

Would it be possible to produce a small joystick for the thumb on the Swiftpoint Z?
If the Swiftpoint Z had a joystick like the one on the ROG CHAKRAM, it would be the perfect gaming mouse for the one-handed right-hander.

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With the general thumb area, Swiftpoint could go one of two ways: Utilize the real estate in that area for more buttons, similar to the MMO 7 mouse with distinct buttons for a variety of games (maybe make a true MMO mouse like the MMO TE by MadCatz, more 12 buttons in a grid formation). or incorporate an analog stick under the two buttons on that side.
I find my thumb resting on nothing, and I'd rather have firm buttons that don't misclick too easily (side buttons are fine, trigger buttons could do with stiffening a tiny bit). Looking at the MMO 7 button layout, exchanging the center 5d button for an analog stick would be an amazing (probably niche) innovation that could really change up gaming.

Another idea would be to incorporate the ActionLock clicking of the MMO 7 series, which changes the LED and programs your left or right click to be held down by software instead of your finger. Forgot to press the AL button and are holding the left or right click? No problem, if you're holding it down, the color switches to it's activated status immediately, rather than waiting for the input of another click.

rat7_mmo7_008.jpg

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On 9/28/2020 at 11:33 AM, Zeanon said:

If you are looking at it that way, nothing plugged in via USB is analog, since USB is a digital interface. That being said, you may believe Razer's marketing or not, that's on you, I belive what I am using and that is a Tartarus Pro which works extremely well for emulating the left controller stick e.g.
You don't need to believe me, but there is no need, to damn things without testing.
Also on the keypad side there is Coolermasters ControlPad with Aimpad Technology, which is "analog" as well in the matter, that it can detect how far the key is pressed, and you will not believe it, but that works.

Why do proprietary stuff when the analog stick has fundamentally unchanged since 2006? I also specifically said I don't believe Razer's crappy marketing, and I know the difference between multi-hat buttons and an actual analog control.

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As I already stated, I never said the DPad on the Tartarus is analog, the normal switches are(2.1mm of "analog" travel[256 states, so around 10nm per state]). I don't care whether you believe anyones marketing are what you consider crappy, I have a Tartarus pro in front of me and my personyl experience tells me, it works extremely well.

What I did for example was taking the "WASD" keys(8, 12, 13 and 14 in that case) and assigned the left XBox stick to them, so now I can use that in overwatch to walk slower or faster, denpending on how far I press the key.
Also maybe you should consider being less stubborn and just looking into things before you call anything crappy.
And who talked about proprietary, Aimpad means, there are basic switches in there with an additional rangefinder under them, just measuring how far the key has been pressed and you can add certain stuff to that if you want.

And yes, you could put more buttons on the thumb area of the Z, but you should also consider there needs to be space, where the mouse can be grabbed tightly so you can lift it of and use the gyroscope.
the layout of thumb buttons is also highly personal, but a general thing is: it is way easier to navigate on something like the Saitek MMO7 or the Rocccat Tyon that on a Roccat Nyth or MMO TE.
On the note of button stiffness: highly personal again, i for example prefer super light switches, since I dont hammer on my mouse and I still have a rat 5 and 7 around and I came to prefer the light keys of the Z.

Last but not least: the ActionLock feature: you can do that with the Z's software.

 

 

Like really I don't know what your problem is, you asked for a keypad device with more granular control than just basic key pressed or not. I told you a few products that offer exactly that, the stuff I told you was not based on marketing but on research, since the topic of analog keyboard switches fascinates me.

For razer's "crappy" marketing: as I already told you, I have a Tartarus pro and the analog switches work, that has nothing to do with marketing, but with personal experience. I also never talked about the 4-way DPad on the Tartarus since that is clearly a 4-way DPad, but about the actual keys themselves (except for the DPad, the scroll wheel and the top most side button which are both micro switches, the other 20 keys[19 on top, one on the side for the thumb], that can detect 256 states of travel)

And now on the analog matter: you were like: nothing from razer in Terms of keypads has analog functionality, which is right in the way that you can not send analog information over usb, only digital, but is wrong in the way, that they do not offer a keypad with the functionality that is commonly referred to as analog.

Edited by Zeanon
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On 10/12/2020 at 8:02 PM, meg said:

Unfortunately, I have had a paralyzed left arm for 20 years. Therefore, although I would very much like to, I can hardly play with it.
I've tried a lot of mouses with as many mouse buttons as possible in order to still be able to play with one hand. The only thing I miss to play is a small joystick on my thumb to move around in the game.

At the moment I am using the ROCCAT TYON. - If my mouse still had a joystick, I could finally play again. I think that there are very many in a similar situation.
Of all the mouses on the market, it would be incredible if there was one that would allow one-handed gaming.

Would it be possible to produce a small joystick for the thumb on the Swiftpoint Z?
If the Swiftpoint Z had a joystick like the one on the ROG CHAKRAM, it would be the perfect gaming mouse for the one-handed right-hander.

As I stated above, have a look at the lexip mice: at least one of them features an analog thumb stick on the left side of the mouse and a tiltable base, which let's you use the whole mouse as a Joystick similar to the Z.

 

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